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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 27, 2011 5:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

I feel like a broken record, because this always comes up with the discussion of this show. Over-rated is meaningless. Cliff calls it over-rated and also puts it in his top 10 shows for 1977. So what does that mean? Its a top 10 show in a year of fantastic performances but its not a top 10 show of all time? Who cares. I think this comes up about this show because of the first Terrapin and Estimated and their placement in the show. Some confuse historic significance with performance. For me, those are very minor components of the show. Try the Eyes>Dancin', HSF and Sugaree if you want to see why Cliff calls it a top 10 in '77.

I'll stick with my philosophy regarding this and other over-rated shows. If it is a show that you would recommend to others to listen to, then its neither over-rated or under-rated, its just the good ole Grateful Dead.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Feb 27, 2011 5:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

I'd love to see the reaction of your colleagues if you brought that mind-set into the lab, Larry :)

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 27, 2011 12:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Well i do bring part of that mindset to the lab everyday. I have no problems telling the people in my lab or for that matter the people whose papers are submitted to journals that in turn ask me to provide peer review, that they have misinterpreted their data and come to the wrong conclusion. I think people have completely misinterpreted your thoughts on this show since it is also in your top 10 list for the year. I think people have also mis-intepreted the "rating" of the show. Too many people build it up or knock it down because of historic significance of the first 4 songs played and completely miss the point of what really makes this show great. Finally, as both AR and I have pointed out, the meaning of "over-rated" is something that is really subjective. There is no committee determining this or consequence of it either.. It is basically what individuals think about the show and we all have different palates. So PatKelley can think Dark Star is over-rated because while quite popular with many deadheads, its not his cup of tea. For me that song would be Shakedown Street. I actually prefer the studio version instead of the jammed out live versions. I like it as a disco song and find the disco jamming to be uninspiring. However that is my personal preference and is only useful to people as it might give them some insight into how i view things. I am sure there are wine critics that you are more likely to trust based on how they have rated wines you have liked. Now they may call something over-rated because you have to pay for for wine and they may not think it is worth the cost. In the case of listening to music here or shows you acquire from bittorrent sites, the cost is essentially non-existent so the consequence of being over-rated is equally minimal.

I trust your musical palate, therefore if you think 2-26-77 is a top 10 show for '77 then i'm going to be pretty sure that its a darn good show. Whether it is not as good as others think it is, is irrelevant.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 28, 2011 6:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

There is, however, one critical component to any "evaluation environment" that you neglected to identify: the voice of authority. Or, shall we say, "accepted dogma" or "guiding paradigm, accepted as 'true' or as close to 'truth' as we dare admit".

Of course, I leave it to you to decide for yourself whether you accept, deny, ignore or fight against said idols of guiding light, hoping against hope to replace them, overthrow them, or watch them fade into insignificance with a passing generation.

I, however, remain committed to the one, past, present and future paradigm of "early is better". Ergo, 77 sucks.

It's a comfort zone, anyhow...





JK, lab leader!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 28, 2011 6:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Ahh, but you prove my point, i know where your palate is, so I know how to consider your opinions regarding anything after 1971!

As for dogma, if we come up with finding that appears to fly in the face of dogma, i just make sure that we are really comfortable of what we are saying based on solid findings and critique of the data before we publish it. However i have no problems with publishing something that does not fit neatly into the current "beliefs" of my peers.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 28, 2011 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Yikes!? What any authority figure hates to hear/read: "I know you well enough to (discount) your input"

Say it ain't so!

Well, okay, I am happy to concede that you, Rob and Arb know me well enough to make such an inference--but don't let on to the newbies, or Dire (he's slow, so I largely have him fooled on any number of issues), since with the cat out of the bag, I might be "discounted" right out of the "free market place of ideas" (that is where we is, right?).

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Poster: Jim F Date: Mar 1, 2011 2:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Don't worry, I'm sure you're not the only one whose credibility the noobies would discount. I mean I've been reading this forum for years and I don't take anything you a$$holes say seriously, you're all crazy.
:-P :-D :-P

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Poster: high flow Date: Feb 28, 2011 11:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

If(Big-ass IF right there) you take the time to listen to a post 1971 show, we'll listen to your opinion.

If you choose to lump entire decades in to the "not worth the tape on which they were recorded" category, you'll be discounted like bruised bananas with those little fruit flies hovering around them.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 28, 2011 12:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Well, you just take that back right here and now, BIG ASS IF-STER! You know darn tooting too well that I was AT shows from 74 to 82, and 77 was one of my higher attendance rate yrs, so there! Hootey Pooty Toe-in-your-eye as we red-neck, inbred East Bay Area types are wont to say!

Seriously, I didn't even know the "early era" existed, to any real degree except the Live Dead/Anthem/Vintage DEAD albums suggested, til TFTVault came out, and I found my way here...really. I only listened to shows from 71 on, til the past five yrs or so...

I do admit, post 82, I would listen, and record all radio broadcasts (weren't many cause I was out of the Bay Area by 79), but by 87 stopped doing that...however, til ~ 2005, I can say my only insight to pre 71 was via commercial releases.

Folks may not realize that for many of us, it was Sk & Roses style "live dead" that had by far the most appeal, and most exposure to "heads of the 70s".

Just think of how we had that album, we had 7-2-71, 8-6-71 and 11-7-71 as the MOST famous of all bootlegs, and they really are just extensions of the S&R release, right?

I can admit now that the very few tapes I managed to collect of pre 71 vintage (again, til recently), were few and far between, and the "best" were the acoustic ones of 70 fame (Feb and May, etc).

I continue to be struck by how when each of us came on the scene, and esp dependent on where, and which "tapers community" you were exposed to, you had very diff experiences.

Hope you're hitting the court now and again these days, punk! I like to think I can live vicariously thru the antics of you, and other friends, that can do more than stand in one spot and flip in a hook now and then (like me).

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Poster: high flow Date: Feb 28, 2011 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

I can relate. 2FTV was a revelation. I knew nothing of Primal GD and my early-GD knowledge was pretty much S&R and some '71 tapes I was given.

BUT, I also never attended any 70's and barely any '80's shows. Thus, I was thrilled to have access to those years as well. In other words, more was "new" to me than to you, because you had seen shows in earlier eras/decades.

I had a few '71, '73, '76 and '90s tapes, but not enough to really appreciate the differences and distinctions.

I was amazed how different 2FTV was compared to my favorite 1971-4-5. It blew me(Ducats?) away.

I've reduced my hoops to 2X/week with a minimum of 2 rest days between. I tore my calf 2 months ago and the 7 week recovery was good for my knee. So I'm gradually ramping-up my fitness as to avoid further injury.

On the non-hoop days I simply treadmill up hill and do some leight wifting. We've also been doing some family hikes. I've been surprised by my kids' endurance.

I was kidding about the bruises and flies.....you're still top-banana.:)

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Poster: Jim F Date: Feb 28, 2011 2:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH- Over-rated!

Yeah, I don't really hold much faith or pay much attention to "ratings" and reviews and such. In terms of both positive AND negative reviews. Categorizations and rating scales and all that do have some use or significance, but are not really things that comes into factoring what I decide I like or don't like. In general terms, at most they tend to be suggestions for things I might decide to put in the playlist for the day. They can be good signposts in terms of specifics; ways of pointing out rare jams, unique strings of songs or arrangements, etc.

When it comes to Grateful Dead shows, the similarities far outweigh the differences. There's always some subjective peak moment/s, more mundane, perfunctory moments, song/s you love, song/s you hate, etc.

All's I know is, I really really like 2/26, and have no interest in debating subjective opinions on whether it's "top 5 of the year" or "top 5 of all time" or "has a top 3 performance of Playing in the Band for the year and a top 10 performance of it of all time." I'm more like Latvala, whatever I'm currently listening to that is blowing me away, THAT'S the best show ever.